Garmin Forerunner 305/405 musings
Updated from previous posting!
Garmin Forerunner 405
UPDATE: thanks to the efforts of lots of people in the community we are now able to download tracks from the Garmin Forerunner 405 Linux. See comment 3432 for a summary of how to do it.
I’d really like to get a Garmin Forerunner. It’s a GPS device with a heart rate monitor which you use for training, I’d use it for my running.
I don’t mind which model I get I don’t suppose – I’d like to get the 405 as it’s the latest and greatest and looks swish, but should be happy with the 305. Which I get depends on the money I can raise.
My immediate concern is that I use Ubuntu Linux, not Microsoft Windows, as my primary operating system. This, as any Apple Mac user will attest, means that typically manufacturers forget about us significant minority and so we can’t use their tools. In the case of Garmin their “Training Center” [sic, USA spelling] software is fairly critical to the whole experience as it analyses all the GPS data etc and gives you graphs/targets yada yada.
So I decided to get in touch with Garmin to ask whether Linux support was on its way, or whether they perhaps had a web-based version.
Off I trotted, onto the Garmin website. First of all I went to the UK site but the contact form was broken, it gave a 404 Not Found or something similar when I submitted my email. Thankfully the ‘back button’ saved me and I managed to retrieve the long text I had typed in.
I then tracked down an email address for the webmaster so emailed them about the contact form problem, but not had a reply.
At the same time I found a form on the USA version of the site and sent my enquiry to their.
I’m pleased to say that I did get a reply. Sadly they don’t have plans to support Linux, but Garmin Connect does look like it may be what I’m looking for as a web interface. So fingers crossed.
Conclusion? Their website let me down, but when the website worked the people manning the support email were helpful. I shall let you know if I manage to save up enough to get one!
vincent
I’m in the same situation, so please let us know if you get one and manage to make it work on Ubuntu. It seems to me that Garmin Connect is a good bet since it is web-based, but the problem might be in connecting the watch to your computer, especially in the 405 case, since it is supposed to connect wirelessly using a USB ANT stick. I don’t know if this protocol is well supported on Linux…
squid
I am hoping, probably naïvely, that all Ubuntu will see is a USB storage device and that the ANT stick will take care of the wireless communication with the wristwatch.
I was hoping to sell my old PC to raise funds for a 405, but that hasn’t happened so I will have to save up the old fashioned way. Ebuyer are stocking the 405s with HRM and seem as cheap as anywhere on the web so I will probably use my staff free next day delivery and get one from here rather than wait 5 days for free delivery.
http://www.ebuyer.com/search?q=garmin+forerunner&x=0&y=0
Please let me know if you beat me to getting one!
squid
I have been in touch with Garmin tech support. It is certainly the case that we’re on our own. I tried to persuade them to plug one into Ubuntu but they wouldn’t/couldn’t.
Anyway, here’s my emailings:
Stephen O’Neill wrote:
Hi there!
I blogged about whether or not the Garmin Forerunner 405 would work with
Linux or not a few weeks ago, and someone found my post and wrote a
comment last night.
http://thefloatingfrog.co.uk/frog-blog/2008/09/garmin-forerunner-305405-musings/
I wondered whether you would like to test whether the unit works with
Ubuntu (or any flavour of Linux – it doesn’t really matter which) so
that I can post up on my website – as my stats show a few hits and I’m
second in Google for “garmin forerunner 405 ubuntu”.
The crux of what we’d like to know is:
—
If we plug the ANT stick into a computer running Ubuntu can we retrieve
the data and upload it to Garmin Connect?
—
I would expect that it wouldn’t be too time consuming for you to test
this and it would be really helpful to a number of people who seem to be
undecided.
Please let me know what you think. I am happy to provide support for you
over email if you need assistance installing Ubuntu itself. I would be
happy to write up a new post with any findings that you had.
If I had a bigger readership on my blog I would suggest that we do a
deal where you let me trial a unit and do a review, but I can’t
guarantee the numbers that would make that worthwhile for you.
Garmin wrote:
I’m sorry, but we are only able to support Windows and Mac with our Training Center software, so I wouldn’t be able to test Linux.
Stephen O’Neill wrote:
Hi, sorry I maybe wasn’t clear.
I wasn’t asking for you to support Linux with the Training Center software.
What I was pointed to previously was your Garmin Connect online service. What I am hoping is that, as a Linux user, I can transfer data from the wristwatch to the Garmin Connect service. Do you still need the Training Center software in order to do this?
Garmin wrote:
No, you wouldn’t need the Training Software for this. You would need the ANT Agent, which is currently on available for Windows. You can download the ANT Agent software from http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3741.
squid
I will try running the ANT software under wine at some point but I’m not optimistic.
There is this thread that kinda looks like people are working on something, so maybe something will come along for the Linux kernel at some point?
http://developer.garmin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435
It’s frustrating as I can’t find out whether it works without buying one… but I suppose we’re covered by the distance selling regulations in the UK.
vincent
Hi,
Sorry I was away from the Internet for the last days. I do not know yet if I’ll buy a watch and when, I’m still undecided, Linux being one important factor since I surely don’t want to use Windoze again after 7 years of having lived without it. 😉 So please keep me updated if you get anything on that.
Running the software through wine is indeed a possibility, which I suppose should work in principle, but it is far from ideal of course.
I had a look at the thread you pointed out on the garmin developers website. However it seems that progress has stalled (and I do not have the technical knowledge required to help out unfortunately…)
On another note, I also contacted Garmin asking for Linux support for the ANT protocol, but their answer was not very helpful. Here’s the exchange:
——
Me:
I’m running Ubuntu Linux on my computer, and I’m interested in buying a Forerunner 405 watch. However before I buy it, I would like to know if the USB ANT protocol that the watch uses is supported on Linux. I’m happy to use the web-based software Garmin Connect to analyse my runs, but I need to know if the watch can communicate with my computer first. I hope the protocol is supported, or if it is not at the moment, that you plan to offer Linux support in the near future.
—
Their answer (from Mark R):
Thank you for contacting Garmin International.
I would be happy to help you with this. At this time, Linux is not compatible and we are unaware if our software team will be implementing Linux as a compatible operating system. I apologize about any inconvenience this brings.
With Best Regards,
—–
So they seem to be happy to “help”, but I’m not sure what they mean by that. I suppose the only thing to be done is to get a watch and try it out and see what happens, but it’s quite a big investment… Otherwise it would be to convince them to try it out, but it looks like you tried this and they are not very open to this possibility unfortunately…
Cheers,
Vincent
squid
I am heartened that Mac support for the ANT protocol is due to be forthcoming any time soon. But it will be closed source so probably won’t help the Linux devs that much.
The whole thing has made me wonder whether I should get the 305, or even a Polar RS400.The comments after the Runners World ‘review’ (http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/article.asp?sp=370838622312410473594&v=1&uan=3320) suggest that the 405 might have some usability issues. Though this review is more balanced (http://www.runnerplus.com/forum/topicpage-158-1021-garmin_forerunner_405_first_impressions_and_review-1) and these people seem to think that the Garmin’s aren’t too hot on GPS visibilty (http://www.pccoach.com/newsletters/May06/ComparisonReviewS625XvFR305.htm).
My gut feeling is that I will end up going for the 405, but that I will be dual booting into Windows for a bit.
I shall keep you posted!
squid
Well, I have ordered one from work. It shall be delivered tomorrow. Eek.
vincent
Good! Let’s hope it works… 🙂
squid
I think that we both know that it won’t, but at least I’ll be able to actively test new developments and perhaps assist potential developers.
My halfway house might be that I dump the data using Windows and then use pytrainer under Linux. Programming the training partner sounds like it needs to be done in Windows too as it can’t be done on the 405 itself.
squid
Got the gadget and have been using it. As predicted it won’t play ball in Linux which is a real shame. I have waved at people on the developer forum in case I can be of help. http://developer.garmin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435
I will be doing a full review of my experience with using the device in the next week or two.
Executive summary: small device, impressive what’s packed into the housing. Isn’t half as user friendly as Garmin make out, but I’m getting used to it – the bezel can be fiddly, I can’t get on-demand back light to come up when the bezel is locked, even the ANT stick doesn’t work as seamlessly as they make out in the Runners World marketing hyperbole ‘review’ and Garmin Connect doesn’t look like it’s fully featured yet – stuff they say you can do in the manual doesn’t look like it’s enabled on the site yet so you need to use Training Center.
That’s the bad stuff, but the good stuff is that it does lock onto satellites quickly, the HRM works really well, the data it shows on the move is really good too.
Hell, this has turned into a mini-review.
You can have a look at the data from the 3 mile test I did this morning here – http://connect.garmin.com/activity/932811
The drop right near the start is where I tried to lock the bezel but managed to stop the timer (grrr – usability again!).
vincent
Thanks a lot for the update. The data from your run looks great!
So nothing works on Linux? I mean, the ANT stick is not recognized at all? No data transfer possible? This is really bad. Have you tried running the ANT software under wine?
For me this is a killer: I really don’t want to have to reinstall Windows on my laptop, I’ve been so happy for so long without it. 🙂 But if I could use it under Wine, while not ideal, that could still be a solution…
The forum on the Garmin developer’s website doesn’t seem to be very much alive unfortunately…
Thanks a lot!
Vincent
squid
To be honest I haven’t even bothered running it under wine as yet. I will give it a whirl – you never know, I might be really lucky.
As for what Linux makes of the ANT stick, dmesg does pick up the USB device but I can’t cat any data from it and the programs on those other threads seemed to do nothing for me. And having read the state of those dev threads it sounds like you’d need to be a programmer to take them to the next stage and decode the data stream.
I shall report back with a wine test. Watch this space.
squid
I did test this by the way, and it didn’t work – the installer ran but it couldn’t get past the point where Windows would have picked the driver up and installed the device.
vincent
OK… too bad then! I think I’ll have to wait for a bit and see if there’s any open source software development for the watch on linux… If only I knew how to code myself! Perhaps I should start learning…
thanks a lot anyway! 😉
Jesper Brouer
Under Linux I got the data (.tcx files) downloaded from the watch.
Using the tool from:
http://www.sbrk.co.uk/ant0_t3.tar.gz
This is the tool mentioned at the thread:
http://developer.garmin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=135
These .tcx files can the be uploaded to connect.garmin.com … and everything is good 🙂
Thanks to Paul / gdev who developed the “gant” tool.